Filling the Vessel: Robert 'Uncle Bob' Martin on the Craft of Performance and Clean Coders
Filling the Vessel: Robert 'Uncle Bob' Martin on the Craft of Performance and Clean Coders
The Interviewer
Mike Hall
Interviewer, community organizer at UGtastic
The Guest
Robert "Uncle Bob" Martin
Software Craftsman, Founder of Clean Coders, and Co-author of the Agile Manifesto
The Conversation
Mike Hall
Interviewer, community organizer at UGtastic
Hi, I'm Mike with UGtastic. I'm here again at SCNA. I'm sitting down with the inimitable Uncle Bob Martin. As you might know, he's written 'Clean Code', 'The Clean Coder', and created the SOLID principles. Now you're doing a series of videos called Clean Coders. You reach out and try to teach in a variety of ways: you speak, you write, you blog, you even tweet once or twice. What is that like and what drove you to create Clean Coders?
Robert "Uncle Bob" Martin
Software Craftsman, Founder of Clean Coders, and Co-author of the Agile Manifesto
Oh, well, what is it like? It keeps me busy. I fly all over the doggone place and give talks and yell at people and encourage them to be professional and talk about SOLID principles and techniques. I love to be creative. It's something that thrills me when I can make something from nothing.
Robert "Uncle Bob" Martin
Software Craftsman, Founder of Clean Coders, and Co-author of the Agile Manifesto
I articles, books, software, and I make videos now. I got into videos because there was this new way to communicate. The web gives us this platform, and the tools for creating videos have gotten so incredibly powerful. I thought one day, I should just make a different kind of video—not the typical screencast, but instead a scripted, produced, and edited video.
Robert "Uncle Bob" Martin
Software Craftsman, Founder of Clean Coders, and Co-author of the Agile Manifesto
I taught myself the tools, bought some cameras, and finally got into the zone. I encouraged my son to work with me to put together cleancoders.com, and they've been selling like hotcakes. It's just another creative outlet and a way for me to spread my message around the world.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, community organizer at UGtastic
So it's not just about the message; a lot of it is creative. You can have fun with it because you do some campy things.
Robert "Uncle Bob" Martin
Software Craftsman, Founder of Clean Coders, and Co-author of the Agile Manifesto
I have a blast with it. Holy crap, yeah, I do.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, community organizer at UGtastic
One of the things that drove me to create UGtastic is that video takes what a lot of people only deliver through Twitter or written work—which can be dry—and lets the audience see the body language, the emotions, and the sound of the voice.
Robert "Uncle Bob" Martin
Software Craftsman, Founder of Clean Coders, and Co-author of the Agile Manifesto
Yeah, it's a very wide bandwidth communications medium. There are a whole bunch of different ways to communicate ideas. A screencast or blog is fairly one-dimensional, but video has millions of ways to present cool ideas.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, community organizer at UGtastic
You are well known for your speaking being very effervescent—or animated.
Robert "Uncle Bob" Martin
Software Craftsman, Founder of Clean Coders, and Co-author of the Agile Manifesto
Animated, or something. I drive camera operators completely insane.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, community organizer at UGtastic
I have a series of pictures of you that were just blurs. But another goal of this series is to help people learning how to speak. I interviewed Corey Haines and he said he actually studied the way you present and engage an audience. Is that something that has always been in your personality?
Robert "Uncle Bob" Martin
Software Craftsman, Founder of Clean Coders, and Co-author of the Agile Manifesto
No, I was born with it. From age five, I've never been afraid of audiences. I like to engage them. I actually do better with audiences than I do with individuals, which is probably one of my pathologies. I have this innate love of getting on stage and entertaining a big lot of people.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, community organizer at UGtastic
When I interviewed Brian Liles, he talked about how you only have a certain amount of time to wake up an audience that might be tired and get one or two major points across. Is that similar to your method?
Robert "Uncle Bob" Martin
Software Craftsman, Founder of Clean Coders, and Co-author of the Agile Manifesto
Yes, you want to make points in a way that keeps everyone engaged and interested. There's a Bob Seger song with the line, 'every ounce of energy you try to give away.' On stage, it's all about energy. You put as much energy out as you can to deliver the message.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, community organizer at UGtastic
You alluded to it being easier to talk to an audience than an individual. I'll admit that part of what drove me to do this is that I had trouble engaging people directly, but creating a format made it easier to approach someone and say, 'These are the things I want to talk about.' It's like putting on a mask for an audience.
Robert "Uncle Bob" Martin
Software Craftsman, Founder of Clean Coders, and Co-author of the Agile Manifesto
Yeah, I suppose there's a mask there. It's a safe format. I can get up on stage and I know exactly what to do; they're all there to listen to me. It's a lot like being a bartender. A bartender has a very safe relationship with someone because the customers are going to love you—especially if you fill their beer up to the very top. Same thing with being on stage: you just make sure you fill that vessel up.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, community organizer at UGtastic
Well, thank you very much for taking the time to talk to me.
Robert "Uncle Bob" Martin
Software Craftsman, Founder of Clean Coders, and Co-author of the Agile Manifesto
You're welcome. My pleasure. Thank you.
Critical Insights
durable
"Video is a 'wide bandwidth' communication medium that allows for personality and emotion to enhance the delivery of technical concepts like SOLID principles."
durable
"Public speaking for developers can act as a 'safe format' for engagement, allowing for a structured persona (a 'mask') that facilitates communication."
durable
"The transition from screencasts to 'produced and scripted' video content (like Clean Coders) represents a shift in technical education toward high-production-value entertainment."
durable
"High-energy presentation is a deliberate strategy to wake up and wake up 'conference-tired' audiences and ensure key messages resonate."
durable
"The relationship between a speaker and an audience can be compared to that of a bartender and a patron: a service-oriented, safe interaction based on 'filling the vessel' for the audience."