Michael Norton on Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community | SCNA 2011
Hi, I'm Mike, I'm sitting down here with Michael Norton, who is involved in helping to run and lead the Cleveland Agile, or excuse me, the Cleveland Ruby Brigade, the Cleveland Agile Group, and the. Hi, I'm Mike, I'm sitting down here with Michael Norton, who is involved in helping to run and lead the Cleveland Agile, or excuse me, the Cleveland Ruby Brigade, the Cleveland Agile Group, and the. Meet Michael Norton, a Staff Engineer and Content Strategist, as he shares his experience leading multiple Agile groups in Cleveland and Pittsburgh. He discusses the model of idea generation meetings and member-driven presentations, and how the role of the organizer has evolved to be more of a consultant. Don't miss this opportunity to learn from a true software craftsmanship expert!
The Interviewer
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
The Guest
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Hi, I'm Mike, I'm sitting down here with Michael Norton, who is involved in helping to run and lead the Cleveland Agile, or excuse me, the Cleveland Ruby Brigade, the Cleveland Agile Group, and the Pittsburgh Agile Group, okay, so that's a mouthful, so can you tell us a little bit about, you know, you're doing three groups, that's a lot. Yeah, well, it's not that difficult when you've got good help and you've got good groups. You know, the way we kind of run them, on occasion we will have a meeting that is basically an idea generation meeting, right, so kind of like you do with an open space. Yeah, like a kickoff meeting. Yeah, exactly, so Pittsburgh Agile Group is the most recent one that we started, and kind of how we started that is a good model. It's the same pattern we use to keep them running. So we'll have at a venue, if it's in Cleveland it's on our boat, but in Pittsburgh it's usually a venue of one of the members, right, and we'll have a party, so there's food, there's drinks, whatever, and we'll actually have a few laptops that are set up, and we'll kick off a discussion about, you know, what is this group about, what do we want to talk about, what's of interest to the members, and then as people come up with ideas of things that they either want to present, or would like to have presented, they go ahead and key that into, we use Meetup. Okay. And they go ahead and key the idea into Meetup, and then folks can kind of vote those up, vote those down by saying, "Hey, I'm interested in attending," and then in, like for Pittsburgh Agile we have a couple of folks from Matrix Solutions and Avicimo that, that help to, actually I would say help to run this group, at this point they really run the group. Right. Um, but they'll kind of look at the topics and then maybe reach out to folks and say, "Hey, did you want to present on this, or did you want it presented?
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
" And we usually try and get the schedule out, uh, two or three months in advance, so people know what's coming up.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Okay.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
And then it's a matter of just kind of watching that backlog, because it starts to diminish. If you're not hearing new ideas, then throw another idea party. So, okay, so you do these kind of, these idea parties, us, you're kind of very, uh, I don't want to say irregularly, but whenever they're needed.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Yeah.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
Like, it's like, "Oh, we're getting a little anemic on our, kind of our backlog of, of topics, so let's have another idea. " And just, so, because that's kind of a new concept for me. I haven't heard anybody else doing anything like that before, where you just, you get some people that are just from the group together?
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Right.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
It's basically, it's actually a group meeting.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Okay.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
So, so it's kind of, it was, it's as if we were going to do an open space. Oh. But we, we don't actually cover any of these topics. We just talk about.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Yeah.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
What do we want to talk about, record that, and agree that, hey, we'll do these in future meetings.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Okay.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
And do you, do you, so you're usually able to have the people that are attending, run the, the meetings themselves?
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
You're not always bringing in external speakers?
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
No. But often, oftentimes it's members of the group themselves that are actually speaking. Um, on occasion we do bring in external speakers. Um, Cleveland Ruby Brigade is one where, um, you know, um, maybe a member, um, says, you know, wow, I'm really interested in, uh, no SQL database.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Right. Right.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
And, uh, we got the opportunity to have John Newmaker come in. Well, yeah. So, yeah. So we brought him in. Um, but oftentimes it's the members themselves that are, that are giving that presentation.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Okay.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
Um, you know, uh, we do have, again, for, for Cleveland Ruby Brigade specifically, uh, I just recently made that a non-profit. Oh, okay.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
So you actually have, um, what's the type of charitable business?
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
Uh, I can't remember what the status is, it's like a, um, but, but it allowed us to, um, to raise some funds and so we can actually use that to bring in speakers. We can also use that to, um, to pay for, uh, meals or refreshments at the events. Um, so now what happens is sponsors, um, it used to be that we, at every meeting we tried to get a sponsor lined up to pay for that meeting's meal.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Okay.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
And sometimes that coordination was very difficult. Now we can say, hey, if you want a sponsor, just, you know, let us know.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Yeah.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
Throw a few bucks into the...
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Exactly.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
We'll put that into, into the, into the coffers and then we'll take care of the, all the rest of the logistics. Oh, okay. Um, and most of the time sponsors are, are, are fine with that. On occasion one will say, hey, I want to make sure that you, you know, make sure you mention our name. We're glad to do that.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Yeah. Yeah.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
So with the, with the three meetings, do you ever, when you do these, um, um, these idea parties, is it just, you have the people from, from, uh, the Ruby Brigade at the Ruby, Ruby Brigade idea and then Agile either. So they're, they're really, they truly are three separate groups. It's just that they're using, they're using the same management techniques to, to help with them. Yep. And so your role isn't so much actively running the group. You're, you're kind of like a consultant.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Yeah. Yeah.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
I mean, I, it's really, it's, it's, um, especially, um, you know, when we started taking out additional groups, uh, having that, when it was just Cleveland Ruby Brigade, I had a much more hands-on involvement in it. When we decided to start the Cleveland Agile Group, I quickly realized that that approach wasn't going to work for me. It was taking too much time. And it wasn't just that it was taking too much of my time. I wasn't doing the job well enough.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Right.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
I didn't feel like I was servicing the group. So we had to figure out a way that we could get kind of the group to take ownership of their own, you know, of their own events and helping to move things forward. So yeah, it's really, um, you know, the group decides what they want to talk about. And I'm just kind of there monitoring and watching and making sure that, you know, if the backlog gets low, let's throw another party. Um, I usually kick off the meetings or, or another one of the, you know, the, the folks that's helping kicks off the meeting, reminds folks, hey, post ideas up on the site, mentions who our sponsors are. So you, you, you, VLE, and, and Mean Dog helped to cultivate the new groups, get them past those, some of those initial stages, and, and help make sure that they continue on in a, in a way that's going to be positive and not just, um, fall over it and, and just, everybody loses interest.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Yeah.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
It's interesting. And, uh, have you, I, I, so you got the three groups. I heard that there was, are there other groups as well that are, that are kind of new, that are sprouting up out of these groups or? Out of these, um, not yet. We have talked about, um, actually targeting some other cities. Interestingly enough, um, uh, we have a customer now who, um, and I wish I could say who they are, but I can't, uh, that, that, um, they wanted to start a natural group.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Right.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
Uh, to kind of promote this within their own organization. And so we actually consulted with them on, hey, here's how you can do it. Here's how you can run it. Here's how, you know, here's kind of the sorts of ways that you can get, you know, the community involved. Um, and I believe if they just launched their own internal Agile group, and I think they're actually following a very similar pattern, and I'm sure they'll find their own way. It's interesting how, uh, a user group could be formed inside of a single corporation. Usually it's an entirely separate entity from, from a corporate link. They, they had, they had some, uh, agreed. We actually talked about it being a public, uh, a public group. They had some concerns. Um, they wanted to be able to share very specifically amongst all of their different, uh, teams.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Yeah.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
Um, some really proprietary internal information.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Okay.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
And, but they, but, um, prior attempts to do something like this, uh, I don't want to say attendance was mandatory, but the way it was put together, people felt like more that they were obliged to go, and so the quality wasn't where they wanted to be. That was the question I was going to ask is, is if it was a, um, internal, uh, user group, it's more like, it's a training, and it could get, become compulsory, not, not, not a voluntary thing. Yeah, we're really, we're really trying to encourage them to, to run it as, as if it were a public group. And, and part of the idea is that, that, um, you know, the folks who are going to show up because they want to be there are bringing a lot of quality and you're going to get a really good result as opposed to making everyone be there. Um, you know, you're not going to get the same kind of quality.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Yeah.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
And if the quality is there, those who are on the fence will start to attack.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Yeah.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
And it's, it's also interesting. It wouldn't be compulsory, but if I'm, if I'm looking at a, I'm an employee at a company and I'm seeing that, uh, like I look for group island. If I see certain people that at my company go off and participate in that user group, I might, maybe I'm not somebody who would normally go to a user group, but because they're going, I'm more likely to go. So that could also be a gateway drug to other user groups. It's like, oh, I've started going to this user group. That was fun. Let's, let's venture into the wild.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Right. Right.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
Well, it's very interesting. It's, uh, you know, to have three groups and, you know, having them run simultaneously, it sounds like it's a, uh, quite the challenge, but, uh, it's, it's also something real fascinating to be able to look at three different communities that might not, that are in completely different areas.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Right.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
Like conceptually, the Ruby and the Agile, both in Cleveland, but covering very different topics and then the Pittsburgh group, which, you know, might be the same Ruby topic, but a very different community. Between these three, have you seen, uh, a great deal of, uh, difference in style or approach for the attendees of those groups? Yeah, actually, it's funny that you mentioned that. Um, so the, the, uh, the Pittsburgh Agile group kind of, um, almost by accident, uh, one of the talks, uh, ended up being a very interactive discussion. Um, and the, that, that group liked that, that style so much, um, that they've been pushing for that from now on.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Okay.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
Um, whereas the Cleveland group, um, we do that on occasion, um, but they also have a palette for, you know, someone who just stands and delivers.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Okay.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
Um, the Pittsburgh Agile group seems to really be, you know, they want their sessions to be highly interactive.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Yeah.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
So, um, same, sometimes the same topic delivered in a completely different fashion between the two different groups.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Right.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
It sounds almost like, um, raising children and they're going to have their own tastes and their own.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Yeah.
Michael Norton
Cleveland & Pittsburgh Community
▶ Speaking
So I wear fuzzy hats and, uh, and, and Celine dog hat and, uh, um, and go their own way. But, you know, uh, ultimately trying to fulfill the same goal of, of having a community that they can be a part of. Well, thank you very much, Michael. Absolutely.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
I really appreciate sitting down to talk with you. out.