Developer Community And Conference Conversations: Mike Hall Interviews Michael Ficarra

[Music] -tastic. com Hi it's Mike with UGtastic again. I'm sitting down with Michael Ficarra. Michael has been very active in the CoffeeScript community even so much so that you've been taking a crack at doing a rewrite of the CoffeeScript compiler and he's done fundraising through Kickstarter to to help support that. Thank you very much for taking the time to sit down. So I'm going to ask you a question you've probably never heard before. Why CoffeeScript? Why use it or why am I into it? Why are you into it? How did you come to it?

You don't remember?

Yeah. Okay.

So when you were looking at CoffeeScript, was there anything that jumped out at you? Like, wow, this is complete--was it something that was pure and because, wow, that was really good? Or was it something like, oh, there's potential, but it's a real diamond in the rough?

Yeah.

be very flexible and something you run in a lot of different places so you build up on dice or language and kind of like going out of jvm where it's a lot of that infrastructure and the hard part of getting that runtime out in a lot of places is already that battle's already been won yeah yeah i mean so i was thinking of the prototype system i couldn't think of the word uh yes so so yeah we share the semantic so member access walks prototype change just like it does in javascript and that's actually a nice feature that we want so we just take that we just read the benefits by compiling yeah okay so you you were attracted to working with with uh coffee scripts and you're bringing some of uh of a more rigorous approach because of your training to the design bit what ultimately led you the idea that you wanted to work with coffee scripts and you're bringing some of a more rigorous approach because of your training to the design bit what ultimately led you the idea that you wanted to work with coffee scripts and you're bringing some of a more rigorous approach because of your training to the design bit what ultimately led you the idea that you wanted to work with coffee scripts and you're bringing some of a more rigorous approach because of your training to the design bit what ultimately led you the idea that you wanted to work with coffee scripts the idea that you wanted to work with coffee scripts the idea of a rewrite because as you're kind of the idea that you wanted to work with coffee scripts the idea of a rewrite because as you're kind of the idea that you wanted to work with coffee scripts the idea of a rewrite because as you're kind of joking for it isn't there already a the idea of a rewrite because as you're kind of joking for it isn't there already a the idea of a rewrite because as you're kind of joking for it isn't there already a coffee strip compiler joking for it isn't there already a coffee strip compiler joking for it isn't there already a coffee strip compiler yeah uh so the compiler has yeah uh so the compiler has yeah uh so the compiler has uh yeah uh so the compiler has uh some failings i guess we call them some failings i guess we call them some failings i guess we call them the uh there's some features that people the uh there's some features that people want uh like source maps want uh like source maps want uh like source maps it's a good example um it's a good example um it's a good example um which maps your compiled dot script back which maps your compiled dot script back which maps your compiled dot script back to the original coffee script so you can to the original coffee script so you can to the original coffee script so you can do debugging in whatever your jobs will do debugging in whatever your jobs will do debugging in whatever your jobs will do on your webinars do on your webinars do on your webinars as if you're developing a public script as if you're developing a public script as if you're developing a public script and those would be really hard uh with and those would be really hard uh with and those would be really hard uh with the architecture of the compiler the architecture of the compiler the architecture of the compiler the original compiler was jeremy's first the original compiler was jeremy's first the original compiler was jeremy's first first try at making a compiler it was first try at making a compiler it was first try at making a compiler it was very rough and very rough and very rough and not trying to not trying to not trying to take a dig at it or anything but but it take a dig at it or anything but but it take a dig at it or anything but but it wasn't it didn't use a wasn't it didn't use a wasn't it didn't use a model that allowed to allow for us to model that allowed to allow for us to model that allowed to allow for us to preserve preserve preserve that source position information through that source position information through that source position information through the compilation process so so so there are some basic uh failings in there are some basic uh failings in there are some basic uh failings in just the overall design of the compiler just the overall design of the compiler just the overall design of the compiler that wouldn't allow us to do a lot of a that wouldn't allow us to do a lot of a that wouldn't allow us to do a lot of a lot of things and of course there were lot of things and of course there were lot of things and of course there were you know 300 or so open bugs you know 300 or so open bugs you know 300 or so open bugs a lot of it with like a lot of it with like a lot of it with like inconsistent parsing the syntax and inconsistent parsing the syntax and inconsistent parsing the syntax and um um um you know i just wanted to you know i just wanted to you know i just wanted to encapsulate fixing all of these things encapsulate fixing all of these things encapsulate fixing all of these things to improve integration with existing to improve integration with existing to improve integration with existing tooling tooling tooling clean up some syntactical clean up some syntactical clean up some syntactical inconsistencies inconsistencies inconsistencies and just also a lot of and just also a lot of and just also a lot of second second uh the second uh second second uh the second uh second second uh the second uh product improvements is you go through product improvements is you go through product improvements is you go through product one and it's okay we find out product one and it's okay we find out product one and it's okay we find out everything that everything that everything that wasn't so good and let's just fix all wasn't so good and let's just fix all those those those those things so it's it's wrong too yeah those things so it's it's wrong too yeah those things so it's it's wrong too yeah it was like the first compiler say hey it was like the first compiler say hey it was like the first compiler say hey try to feel out how people like this and try to feel out how people like this and try to feel out how people like this and they really like now we can they really like now we can they really like now we can really do uh really do uh really do uh do it at this time so you you started do it at this time so you you started do it at this time so you you started this this this yeah obviously yeah obviously yeah obviously you know it's free software but it you know it's free software but it you know it's free software but it costs money to create it in time and costs money to create it in time and costs money to create it in time and effort so certainly cost a lot of time effort so certainly cost a lot of time effort so certainly cost a lot of time yeah yeah yeah uh she you started this where did the uh she you started this where did the uh she you started this where did the idea for the kick shooter come idea for the kick shooter come idea for the kick shooter come uh i just uh uh i just uh uh i just uh you know i had heard the kickstarter was you know i had heard the kickstarter was you know i had heard the kickstarter was in the news a lot at the time and i in the news a lot at the time and i in the news a lot at the time and i guess it's so it's a big phenomenon but guess it's so it's a big phenomenon but guess it's so it's a big phenomenon but um yeah i heard people getting funded um yeah i heard people getting funded um yeah i heard people getting funded for it for similar projects and for it for similar projects and for it for similar projects and uh i i had had this idea for this uh i i had had this idea for this uh i i had had this idea for this rewrite in my head for a long time i rewrite in my head for a long time i rewrite in my head for a long time i also had uh you know ideas for it i had also had uh you know ideas for it i had also had uh you know ideas for it i had published this manifesto of things that published this manifesto of things that published this manifesto of things that would change about the language as well would change about the language as well would change about the language as well and and and an end goal of this compiler is that i an end goal of this compiler is that i an end goal of this compiler is that i would have a really good extensible would have a really good extensible would have a really good extensible thing to work off of to write a language thing to work off of to write a language thing to work off of to write a language that is similar to college script with that is similar to college script with that is similar to college script with the changes that i i would make i uh had the changes that i i would make i uh had the changes that i i would make i uh had full control of the college script yeah full control of the college script yeah full control of the college script yeah exactly so um exactly so um exactly so um you know you know you know i would love to get a i would love to get a i would love to get a compiler that is extensible and i can compiler that is extensible and i can compiler that is extensible and i can build off of build off of build off of and that this is my shortcut to to doing and that this is my shortcut to to doing and that this is my shortcut to to doing that okay that okay that okay so really it was just a big selfish it's a scratch the edge it's and it benefits it's a scratch the edge it's and it benefits it's a scratch the edge it's and it benefits everybody yes um so you you launched everybody yes um so you you launched everybody yes um so you you launched the the um the the the the kickstarter and it succeeded your goals kickstarter and it succeeded your goals kickstarter and it succeeded your goals it looked like you were over a thousand it looked like you were over a thousand it looked like you were over a thousand dollars past yeah the original goal was dollars past yeah the original goal was dollars past yeah the original goal was i initially planned to do like a i initially planned to do like a i initially planned to do like a you know you know you know x dollars per month that i'll be able to x dollars per month that i'll be able to x dollars per month that i'll be able to work on it but then you know work on it but then you know work on it but then you know depending on how successful it was i depending on how successful it was i depending on how successful it was i didn't want to be indefinitely chained didn't want to be indefinitely chained didn't want to be indefinitely chained to the uh project so i i decided i would to the uh project so i i decided i would to the uh project so i i decided i would just fix it to a four-month period that just fix it to a four-month period that just fix it to a four-month period that i would contribute all my time to and i i would contribute all my time to and i i would contribute all my time to and i would just bust the thing out and would just bust the thing out and would just bust the thing out and that that period started in june and it that that period started in june and it that that period started in june and it ended september ended september ended september so so how did it go did it go well for so so how did it go did it go well for so so how did it go did it go well for you i think it's really successful yeah you i think it's really successful yeah you i think it's really successful yeah the project is you know really popular the project is you know really popular it's being used by a lot of people it's it's being used by a lot of people it's it's being used by a lot of people it's being incorporated into uh popular ide being incorporated into uh popular ide being incorporated into uh popular ide and um you know it's it's seeing and um you know it's it's seeing and um you know it's it's seeing adoption it's still it needs a little adoption it's still it needs a little adoption it's still it needs a little work of course it needs a little work of course it needs a little work of course it needs a little polishing i didn't get to 100 of the polishing i didn't get to 100 of the polishing i didn't get to 100 of the things i wanted to get to in the things i wanted to get to in the things i wanted to get to in the kickstarter uh by the time the period kickstarter uh by the time the period was over but uh at least like 95 of was over but uh at least like 95 of was over but uh at least like 95 of the things i wanted to do the things i wanted to do the things i wanted to do that's better than most projects yeah that's better than most projects yeah that's better than most projects yeah yeah and um my backers seem really happy yeah and um my backers seem really happy yeah and um my backers seem really happy about it that's good uh just we're about it that's good uh just we're about it that's good uh just we're curious why i mentioned earlier about curious why i mentioned earlier about curious why i mentioned earlier about martin atkins who had done a seminar he martin atkins who had done a seminar he martin atkins who had done a seminar he was doing a series of seminars on how to was doing a series of seminars on how to do kickstarters one of the pitfalls he do kickstarters one of the pitfalls he do kickstarters one of the pitfalls he described it is uh and the first described it is uh and the first described it is uh and the first kickstarter is kickstarter is kickstarter is uh you know looking at the amount of uh you know looking at the amount of uh you know looking at the amount of money that you're going to need and just money that you're going to need and just money that you're going to need and just saying okay that's what i'm going to ask saying okay that's what i'm going to ask saying okay that's what i'm going to ask for and that i need twelve thousand for and that i need twelve thousand for and that i need twelve thousand dollars just ask for twelve thousand dollars just ask for twelve thousand dollars just ask for twelve thousand dollars for getting taxes and the cost dollars for getting taxes and the cost dollars for getting taxes and the cost of sending out the was it that's of sending out the was it that's of sending out the was it that's something you ran into or so i made something you ran into or so i made something you ran into or so i made sure to remember sure to remember sure to remember taxes and how much kickstarter takes taxes and how much kickstarter takes taxes and how much kickstarter takes a big portion of that from you and so is a big portion of that from you and so is a big portion of that from you and so is amazon payments uh so when it gets to amazon payments uh so when it gets to amazon payments uh so when it gets to you yeah you yeah you yeah it's it is definitely less but um i it's it is definitely less but um i it is definitely less but um i didn't have any like physical goods or didn't have any like physical goods or didn't have any like physical goods or anything i had to deal with which some anything i had to deal with which some anything i had to deal with which some people complained about they said you people complained about they said you people complained about they said you know i'm backing this why why don't i know i'm backing this why why don't i know i'm backing this why why don't i get anything it's kind of like a get anything it's kind of like a get anything it's kind of like a selfish response but but really what it selfish response but but really what it selfish response but but really what it was was a contribution to the community was was a contribution to the community was was a contribution to the community everybody benefits if just a few people everybody benefits if just a few people everybody benefits if just a few people contribute especially like contribute especially like contribute especially like the corporate donations that we got you the corporate donations that we got you the corporate donations that we got you know that they're know that they're know that they're making such use of this tool in this making such use of this tool in this making such use of this tool in this language um you know that it's it's language um you know that it's it's language um you know that it's it's worth it to them to if they had to buy worth it to them to if they had to buy worth it to them to if they had to buy it if it was made software that they'd it if it was made software that they'd it if it was made software that they'd be paying so much more why not just be paying so much more why not just be paying so much more why not just contribute uh small amounts and then contribute uh small amounts and then contribute uh small amounts and then everybody will everybody will everybody will benefit the unfortunate thing is that benefit the unfortunate thing is that benefit the unfortunate thing is that everybody can say that's their everybody can say that's their everybody can say that's their responsibility responsibility responsibility there's always that kind of yeah game there's always that kind of yeah game there's always that kind of yeah game theory nobody should contribute theory nobody should contribute theory nobody should contribute uh and you know just to kind of bring uh and you know just to kind of bring uh and you know just to kind of bring things around uh your we're here at things around uh your we're here at things around uh your we're here at groupon and uh groupon and uh groupon and uh groupon is is uh is uh you're a research groupon is is uh is uh you're a research groupon is is uh is uh is uh you're a research partner partner partner for coffee scripts i saw that you're in for coffee scripts i saw that you're in for coffee scripts i saw that you're in your description when i was looking at your description when i was looking at your description when i was looking at a research fellow a research fellow a research fellow so yeah groupon so yeah groupon so yeah groupon did something special for the kickstarter did something special for the kickstarter did something special for the kickstarter instead of donating instead of donating instead of donating like the other companies like the other companies like the other companies they they they they said they said they said why not come here and use all of our they said why not come here and use all of our they said why not come here and use all of our resources we'll give you resources we'll give you resources we'll give you a few people that you know that have a few people that you know that have a few people that you know that have worked in languages before that can worked in languages before that can worked in languages before that can you know that you can go to you know that you can go to you know that you can go to for any advice for any advice for any advice and work out problems with and work out problems with and work out problems with one of those one of those one of those was definitely erin bedra works on was definitely erin bedra works on was definitely erin bedra works on Clojure all the time we interviewed Clojure all the time we interviewed Clojure all the time we interviewed before before before so you guys know yeah um so so you guys know yeah um so so you guys know yeah um so worked with him a lot on it and uh i worked with him a lot on it and uh i worked with him a lot on it and uh i got to use got to use got to use their their building their their their their building their their their their building their their computers everything and uh they even computers everything and uh they even computers everything and uh they even gave me some money gave me some money gave me some money so it was so it was so it was very generous oh wow very generous oh wow very generous oh wow that's why i'm here in chicago actually that's why i'm here in chicago actually that's why i'm here in chicago actually i just moved down here for that yeah so i just moved down here for that yeah so i just moved down here for that yeah so part of it is groupon part of it is groupon part of it is groupon feeding back into the open source feeding back into the open source feeding back into the open source community all right well thank you very community all right well thank you very community all right well thank you very much for taking the time to sit down much for taking the time to sit down much for taking the time to sit down thanks for having me thanks for having me thanks for having me [Music]