Fred Guime on Community Building and User-group Organizing | GOTO 2014
Hi, it's Mike with UGtastic. I'm here at GOTO Conference 2014. Hi, it's Mike with UGtastic. I'm here at GOTO Conference 2014. Interview with Fred Guime at GOTO Conference 2014 on community building and user-group organizing. This recording captures practical lessons and perspective for software teams and technical communities. Read the full structured forensic transcript with durable insights at: https://just3ws.github.io/interviews/fred-guime-goto-conference-2014
The Interviewer
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
The Guest
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Hi, it's Mike with UGtastic. I'm here at GOTO Conference 2014. I'm sitting here with Fred Gimmey, who is the president of the Chicago Java Users Group. Thank you very much for taking the time to speak with me. My pleasure. So, Chicago Java Users Group, and the president, you're the president of the Chicago Java Users Group. Yeah, it's also great. It sounds like a very formal group. Do you have to wear robes?
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
Oh yeah, yeah, we have a whole shebang and 21 tons of wood, but not really. It sounds lovely. I'd have to visit. But no, so the group, I know it's been through a few iterations, but can you tell me about where it is now and how you've gotten involved with it? So, it is. So, what happens is, we sort of went through like a phase where, you know, there was a couple of transitions that happened, and I know the group was not as active as you know, who would like it to be in Chicago. So, one of the things that happened was, you know, I started getting involved and I started going in, you know, we got, you know, Bob Pauline, Mike Munoa, I didn't know, and they all come here, and then we start working with the group. And one of the things we wanted to do is, is sort of this idea that- Oh, you're walking away. Yeah, sorry. Sort of this idea that Chicago is a great place to be a developer.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Right. Right.
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
So, so we looked around and, and, and it sort of like started like selfishly. So, you know, I work for a company in Chicago, and then we're like, you know, looking for developers, and then sort of you realize there's nowhere to be found. You know, it's, it's like, you know, then we go to, we went to universities, and then we see like, oh, there's brain drain. It's like people are going to California, they're going to New York, they don't want to stay here in Chicago.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
And we're like, why is that?
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
And, and part of it is, it was like, you know, there's, we do have like the Midwestern values of people just work and stuff, but, but we're missing that sort of like that, that programmer culture in here. And we're like, we have such big companies, you know, you know, like Google is opening an office here, you know, we definitely have, you know, like Groupon is here, you know, Orbitz is here, you know, CME is here. We have such many developers, and we're trying to figure out how can we make this a better place for being a developer.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Right.
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
So, so, you know, the first things, you know, start, you know, start doing a podcast, you know, javapubhouse. com. And then it's, you know, sort of trying to educate people about how to program in Java. Then we go to Java 1. And that was javapubhouse.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Yeah. Okay.
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
And . com. So, if you check it out. Oh, please do.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Yeah.
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
So, so, so, so then, then we go to Java 1 and say, go back to your group, get involved. So, you know, come back here, you know, we see that the group was in transition because the prior president, you know, he was just moving away and just, you know, job revocation. And we sort of were stagnant a little bit. I mean, our meetings were sort of like, you know, you showed up, there was, you know, the presenter, there were like seven people showed up, you know, two of them were recruiters. One of them was as part of the C job, you know, to go with just group representative. And then you get three people that show up because they always like to show up.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Right.
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
So, so then, then we're like, look at this is, this is pretty bad because we have so many Chicago Java developers.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Right.
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
So, so we took it like a year and a half ago and we said, we're going to push this through. We're going to start getting the work out and we're going to start having a schedule. We're going to start bringing good speakers. And, and, and it took a lot of effort, you know, we, we opened up a meetup, we organized the meetups and, and, you know, we grew up from essentially, you know, five, 10 people. Now in our meetup group, we have, we just crushed 900. Wow. So, I mean, you, you brought it back to, I mean, it was a life support.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Yeah.
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
I wouldn't say me. It's, it's, but you guys are president in the groves. Yeah, no, no, it was no, but the reality is we got a lot of, you know, I mean, I was lucky enough to run into, into Buckingham and Michael, you know, Jenny, and, and they all like, like give back the spirit, you know, I mean, as you know, you have to sort of be crazy to do this user group.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Right.
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
There's, there's, there's, there's really no benefit, you know, to it. Like, you know, I mean, there might be some, but really there's some financial benefit is more time. And a lot of them, it's a lot of pain, but you know, when you get that, that guy that says, you know, thanks for everything, that was super cool. Then it's like, all right, that made my day for the next month.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Right.
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
And, and, and we really push it because we, I do believe, and I always say this is like a preacher every time I go and talk to our group. It's like, Chicago has no reason to envy New York or California. You know, we have such a great programmers here. We just, you know, need to sort of like lure them out. Because what happens is, is, is we have so many, so much Midwestern values that we just, we're, we're, we're going to go home, you know, but, but there's no reason for people to move anywhere else. You know, we can create a culture here, and that's where we can try to go to see job. Well, the interesting parts that we're doing is, you know, we first started with, with one friend, you know, we, one meeting a month, you know, and then, then we sort of like expanded that. Now we have two meetings a month where one of them is essentially, you know, now we have an advanced track for people that are like, you know, bleeding edge technology type of deal, you know, and that's where you get to see elastic surge. That's where you get to see the new features of spring, you know, and we, we sort of have like a, like a sort of like, and we call it sort of like an introductory track, where it is, you know, intro to multi-trending, intro to, you know, you know, how to, how to do unit testing, you know, and, and the idea is, you know, that if we have support and we have the bandwidth, we can start adding the tracks. We have enough people already, you know, in our group that there's, there's definitely different interests that we can target. Well, yeah, right now Java is kind of gone, it's still in the throes of that revolution of languages. And the JVM has always been multi, multi-lingual.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Yeah.
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
But now we're looking at Scala, you know, we had a keynote here, you know, we had a keynote here. We had Martin Oderski give a keynote here. Oh yeah, that's right. So Scala is huge, Clojure, huge. And JRuby, of course, is still also, you know, Yeah, there's some amazing work. And then the Android platform.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Are you looking at some cross-pollination of ideas using, like, outreach with Ruby?
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
Definitely. And that's the other thing that we're sort of trying to sort of see that, you know, I mean, we're, we're not just doing Java anymore, we're sort of trying to be more JVM driven, right? And, and, and one of the things that we're sort of experimenting, we're sort of adding one or two, we're taking one or two of our sessions and they're doing more of, like, a JVM, right? So, you know, if you're Groovy, you know, or if you are, if you're doing Clojure, and, and, and we're trying to see how those fit in, if there's interest. Because sometimes what happens is, you as a Java developer don't know, oh gosh, I could have used Scala here, I could have used JRuby here, you know, and, and, and what we're trying to do is sort of like, say, hey, it's not just about Java, you know, there's, you have choices, right? And then, you know, just, you can be aware of them and how you can use them in your daily work. Yeah, Java becomes a language on the Java.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Yeah, on the JVM, right?
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
But I mean, yeah, in all seriousness, some of these languages are so polished that they stand on their own.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Yeah.
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
You know, right beside Java as a first-class citizen on the JVM. So, you know, it, it, it sounds like there's like, the world is your, is your oyster, for, for Java developers right now. If you know how to, if you already understand the fundamentals of the JVM and JARS and that infrastructure, you can do a lot. No, and that's, and that's the fun part, is, is, is, is, it's, if you're a Java developer, it's a great time to be one. Because, you know, you can, you can, um, just sit down, look at it, and play with all the other stuff that is coming out. You know, even other languages, like, you know, like, you know, like Jay Ruby, which is, you know, he's, he's crazy. But, uh, but, you know, it's like, the work he does is great, you know, I mean, there's, the, the work that is being done on the JVM itself, which is, sometimes people don't understand, like, the JVM, the machinery that runs this, has, like, 20 years of the most brilliant minds just putting on it. You know, you got Charlie Hunt, you got, you even got Gil Tenet, you know, you got Yen Demalvech, which is the Cliff's founder, you know, they all have their, all ideas, they always talk, they always figure out how to do things better, so that, you know, if you're a JVM user, you don't have to.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Right.
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
And, and, and, you know, and that's one of the other things, like, you know, what I wanted to say about our group, is, is, we're trying to educate people about all these things, right?
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Right.
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
So, one of them is, is, look, there's tons of choices for the JVM, and you shouldn't just look at Java as the only tool that you can have. But the other thing we're doing is, is we're training them, or, or we're trying to spread the word about what a JSR is, what the JCP, you know, our group is actually a member, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a participant, not a voting member, we're a participant on the JCP process.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Right.
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
So, so what that means is, is we're starting to have influence, you know, and, and the end goal of the Chicago Java users group will be to one day, you know, look at, the biggest ones is London and Brazil, and, you know, and say, look guys, you know, we are representative, we are, you know, we actually make an influence on the language, we, you know, we, we follow a group, we help shape the way Java looks in the future. So, you're even looking at beyond simply having the community come together, and have a place to share it as a community, but also to help build a, a, a, a groundswell to be able to help become part of the future of the platform. Which is fun, because the things that we're doing is, is, for example, we have sort of like this bi-weekly newsletter, right? And in this newsletter, we, we have like a professional spawner, which is sort of breaking down like things like, this is the JSRs, this is the JCP, this is how you contribute, this is how, you know, these are the ones that seem interesting for us to contribute on. And then, then we're, we're sort of carrying that with what Bob Powell is doing, which is getting the doers out, right?
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Right.
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
There's a lot of people that, you know, they love to like sit down and, and sort of like passively receive the information. And it's great. But we also want to sort of like tailor out to who like the makers are. So, so like Bob is creating this, what is called the maker track, which is not so much as being on a lecture, but it's almost, you can think about like hackathons, hack days, people that, you know, like want to sit down and type.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Right.
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
So, so one of the great things we're trying to do is we're trying to say, Hey, we know you're out there. Let's get you in, you know, let's get you get the language even better. You know, let's, let's make Chicago relevant, not just in terms of us being Java consumers, but in terms of shaping the history of Java.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Right.
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
And, and even with the open source landscape, I know that there are people that I've worked with here in Chicago that are creating their own platforms and tools on top of Java. One person I interviewed is Igor Polevoy. He's created a whole suite of tools and now he's building a, a consultancy on top of those tools. But, you know, people are doing stuff here in Chicago. Yes. You don't have to go to wherever, you know, wherever the guys that are creating Groovy or wherever they're doing, I don't know if that's Chicago or somewhere else, but there's people here in Chicago that are creating and, and working the job and doing interesting things with the platform. And that's what we want to hear about. I mean, we want to, we want to get them out and get them and give them a stage for them to say, Hey, this is happening here. And just take notes. Right, right.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Yeah.
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
That this is a rich community. It isn't just a bunch of people who report in, punch in, punch out. No. And that's, and that's what we're trying to, you know, I mean, that's the reason why, why, you know, SeaJug is there now. It's like, we're trying to spread the word. We're trying to make the community here, you know, not just big, but influential. So if I go on meetup. com, I'll be able to find, if I search Chicago Java.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Yeah. Yeah.
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
We should be the first thing, you know, like the Chicago Java Institute group, SeaJug. Our website is CJug. org. Oh, C-J-U-G. C-J-U-G. . org.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Yeah.
Fred Guime
community building and user-group organizing
▶ Speaking
Okay, great. And then, yeah, we're on meetup. So, you know, sign up. Come on. We want to get, our goal is to get to 1,500 people in meetup by the end of the year. So. Oh, okay, great. All right, well then, go sign up.
Mike Hall
Interviewer, UGtastic
▶ Speaking
Thank you very much for taking the time to speak. Mike, thank you so much. Appreciate it. That's fine. [Music]